wide and narrow grip

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mohamed
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wide and narrow grip

Post by mohamed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:32 am

Hi all

I know that when do wide grip lat pull down it target the inner lat and when do narrow grip will target outer lat
The question when do row exercises what will be???
The second question is wide or narrow grip important for intermediate players or just for advanced who search for target part of the muscle ??

And thx
Mohamed

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stuward
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by stuward » Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:55 am

There are no inner and outer lats. All pull downs target the lats. A supinated grip will engage the biceps more, a pronated grip will engage the lats more. Width of the grip apparently doesn't make much difference. Row exercises target rhomboids and traps that work on moving the shoulder blades together.

Other things that don't exist:
Inner and outer pecs
Inner and outer delts
upper and lower lats
upper and lower biceps
upper and lower quads
upper and lower abs
upper and lower obliques.
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by robertscott » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:07 am

by "outer lat" he probably means teres major

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by stuward » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:23 am

robertscott wrote:by "outer lat" he probably means teres major
You're probably right.
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by mohamed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:31 am

Im in the first i know that the fibers contract along his length or no contract but some trainers and pdf books says about this idea
Can u tell me the reason of this myth???
And sorry for my bad eng because im arabian
robertscott wrote:by "outer lat" he probably means teres major

No i don't mean teres major

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by Jungledoc » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:37 am

I think the myths develop through body building, because body builders want more separate ripples and bulges, want every possible thing to be "defined". Or they hope to change the apparent shape of a muscle be making part of it bigger.

What are your lifting goals? If body building is what you are trying to do, fine. If not, you shouldn't be worrying about parts of muscles, or even individual muscles, but focus on movements.
Our greatest fear should not be of failure, but of succeeding at things in life that don't really matter.--Francis Chan

mohamed
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by mohamed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:47 am

But this idea i know it from pdf book and trainers on youtube look like good trainers
And about my goal i wish be personal trainer so must be know

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by Dub » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:02 am

mohamed wrote:But this idea i know it from pdf book and trainers on youtube look like good trainers
And about my goal i wish be personal trainer so must be know
It is true that the lats typically originate from four different areas, but the muscle only inserts into one spot and is supplied by only one nerve-route (thoracodorsal), which makes isolating different parts of lats anatomically and logically impossible. So maybe the several origos drive to the false conclusions.
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mohamed
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by mohamed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:41 am

Dub wrote:
mohamed wrote:But this idea i know it from pdf book and trainers on youtube look like good trainers
And about my goal i wish be personal trainer so must be know
It is true that the lats typically originate from four different areas, but the muscle only inserts into one spot and is supplied by only one nerve-route (thoracodorsal), which makes isolating different parts of lats anatomically and logically impossible. So maybe the several origos drive to the false conclusions.
You give me good and cogent scientfic reason but i didn't say isolate part of muscle
My idea in make more percentage of intensity in apart than another

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by Dub » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:09 pm

mohamed wrote: You give me good and cogent scientfic reason but i didn't say isolate part of muscle
My idea in make more percentage of intensity in apart than another
Muscles are stupid. They don't work by percentages. When the nervous system notices a stress or force being put upon them, or given a task to do something, they recruit the muscle by contracting as many muscle cells as needed to create a needed reaction or produce the task given. Lats still consist on mainly one specific part. It all come to a single insertion. I understand the confusion, so lets look at the quadriceps femoris. That's a muscle that can contract more on certain parts than another. But that is because it originates from four different points and theses parts insert to a common tendon, a fibrous tissue. So basically there are plenty of angles to pull, right? With the lats, all the origos are to form a single muscle, a single head. Not four, but one. So there is no difference in activation of the origos.

I'm still very sure that these youtube trainers and pdf's are talking about the relationship with TERES MAJOR and Latissmus dorsi. Unless you can show the sources you talk of, there's no reason to go further.
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by mohamed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:28 pm

Ok you can see the book
Search in bodybuilding anatomy.pdf
Page number 76-77 of the book not the program

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by robertscott » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:48 pm

I've heard a lot of experienced bodybuilders say it's possible to emphasise the lower portion of the lats, I've not tried it myself

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by stuward » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:08 pm

This study, done in 2010 says that it's the grip that matters, not the width.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20543740" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The book you referenced was 2006, before this study was done.

This article references that study and puts it into perspective. http://www.exercisebiology.com/index.ph ... pulldowns/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The bottom line is that unless you're training pro bodybuilders, stick to basics and don't waste time on minutia.
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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by robertscott » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:57 pm

stuward wrote: The bottom line is that unless you're training pro bodybuilders, stick to basics and don't waste time on minutia.
good point. There's no need to worry about fine tuning on that level until you have a very advanced physique in the first place

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Re: wide and narrow grip

Post by mohamed » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:54 pm

Nice 2 links
And really thx for all tired with me

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