best non creatine pre work out supps

richie97 · Post by **richie97** » Sun May 04, 2014 12:21 am

hey fellas, my buddy is starting to work out and wants to get a pre work out with out creatine, any recommendations?

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Sun May 04, 2014 3:35 am

Why no creatine?

Carbs+Whey Protein. Simple as that. I have no reason to recommend anything else because I don't know:
1) What that buddy is eating otherwise
2) What his goal is anyway. Is it strength? Muscle? Fat Loss? Endurance?

robertscott · Post by **robertscott** » Sun May 04, 2014 7:29 am

caffeine. That's all most pre workout supps are.

hoosegow · Post by **hoosegow** » Sun May 04, 2014 8:17 am

Creatine is the only thing I'd recommend.

robertscott · Post by **robertscott** » Sun May 04, 2014 11:53 am

it's quite funny the dude doesn't want to take creatine when it's pretty much the only supplement that actually works...

richie97 · Post by **richie97** » Sun May 04, 2014 4:52 pm

Dub wrote:Why no creatine?

Carbs+Whey Protein. Simple as that. I have no reason to recommend anything else because I don't know:
1) What that buddy is eating otherwise
2) What his goal is anyway. Is it strength? Muscle? Fat Loss? Endurance?

parents are anise about it, he had a healthy diet solid 3 meals lots of good snacks and his goal is to get stronger and bigger

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Sun May 04, 2014 10:33 pm

richie97 wrote:parents are anise about it

Part of the fallout from the baseball steroid scandal has been large numbers of people equating creatine and other over-the-counter supplements with harmful drugs. It's not true, of course, but minds have been made up - no point in confusing them with the facts.

Most of the popular pre-workout products these days offer some variation of nitrous oxide boosting - the presumption being that the improved circulation provided by nitrous oxide leads to better pumps (and thus faster muscle growth) when working out. These products are relatively expensive, and are usually labelled "not for use by persons under 18." Probably not something your friend's parents would want him bringing into their house. And something that would fast deplete his allowance.

Given the high levels of testosterone and growth hormone the typical male has as he enters into his late teens, I think that pre-workout supplements would be a waste of money for him. A cheeseburger an hour or so before hitting the gym should suffice.

Post by **stuward** » Mon May 05, 2014 4:54 am

Good answer Stephen.

I've noticed many of the recent posts have been about supplements, as if they really matter. Supplements can improve results for people who are already successful at building muscle and losing fat through exercise and diet, but for people that have not sorted that part out, they're wasting time and money.

KittenJ · Post by **KittenJ** » Wed May 07, 2014 11:34 am

Alright Stu, with that in mind regarding not yet successfully built muscle or lost much fat with a regular diet and exercise regimen would you not recommend supplements or creatine? Or would you recommend treading into those waters warily?

Post by **stuward** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:21 pm

Kitten, Focus on healthy food, appropriate calorie intake and training to meet your goals, typically focussing on strength, power, speed or endurance. Protein powder is a great convenience to make sure you get enough protein. Simple supplements like creatine, caffiene, vitamin D and that's about it, could be useful for the general population. You can certainly get by without them but self-experimentation will tell you what you need to know.

robertscott · Post by **robertscott** » Wed May 07, 2014 12:23 pm

Stephen Johnson wrote:
richie97 wrote:parents are anise about it
Part of the fallout from the baseball steroid scandal has been large numbers of people equating creatine and other over-the-counter supplements with harmful drugs. It's not true, of course, but minds have been made up - no point in confusing them with the facts.

Most of the popular pre-workout products these days offer some variation of nitrous oxide boosting - the presumption being that the improved circulation provided by nitrous oxide leads to better pumps (and thus faster muscle growth) when working out. These products are relatively expensive, and are usually labelled "not for use by persons under 18." Probably not something your friend's parents would want him bringing into their house. And something that would fast deplete his allowance.

Given the high levels of testosterone and growth hormone the typical male has as he enters into his late teens, I think that pre-workout supplements would be a waste of money for him. A cheeseburger an hour or so before hitting the gym should suffice.

when I first started training, I ordered a big tub of some mass gainer stuff. When it arrived, my dad quietly took me to one side and asked me "is this legal?"

Stephen Johnson · Post by **Stephen Johnson** » Wed May 07, 2014 1:42 pm

KittenJ wrote: would you not recommend supplements or creatine?

I would recommend glucosamine/chondroitin-based joint formulas, especially to someone whose legs are worn out after 15+ years of dancing. They aren't magic, but they work better than placebo.

As for the other stuff, I agree with Stu - max out diet and exercise, then add supplements if you want/need more performance

robertscott wrote:when I first started training, I ordered a big tub of some mass gainer stuff. When it arrived, my dad quietly took me to one side and asked me "is this legal?"

Was it?

I knew a gym rat who claimed that he could tell which lifters were using weight gainers when they broke wind in the gym.

robertscott · Post by **robertscott** » Wed May 07, 2014 1:59 pm

Stephen Johnson wrote: Was it?

I knew a gym rat who claimed that he could tell which lifters were using weight gainers when they broke wind in the gym.

a 2k tub of steroids would be a little out of my price range!

jackthestrat · Post by **jackthestrat** » Thu May 08, 2014 6:05 am

(1) Cadbury cream eggs and a large dunkins iced coffee, black. Works for me.

KittenJ · Post by **KittenJ** » Thu May 08, 2014 8:08 am

mmmmm cadbury cream eggs *drools* lol

Alright.

So Stu, I'm doing protein shakes in the AM right now because my protein intake for the day is, food wise, 2 hardboiled eggs and maybe half a serving of protein scattered in my dinner somewhere. I'm focusing on my diet, trying to keep candy, chocolate, general junk food to a minimum and up my vegetable, protein, fruit intake.

I'll look into those glucosamine/chondroitin-based joint formulas that you mentioned Stephen.

I'm still considering adding casein in the evenings after my workout as needed.

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