Vegetable oil

[jlmoss]

Omega 6 is inflamatory and it probably one of the most damaging components of the modern diet, after right after sugar and gluten.

Sorry bout the old post ressurection, but I didn't do it first! lol

Why is gluten bad? It's been in use since before yeast... before the death of christ, etc.

[mark74]

Gluten is believed to be the cause of so called "leaky guts", i.e. it damages the lining of the intestine so that things that should be confined within it are able to escape into the blood stream. This can be dangerous for a variety of reasons, including that some stuff, when it reaches the blood stream, can cross the blood-brain barrier. Some hypothesized that Alzheimer is a consequence of this.

Also, there are some sources stating (i.e. I'm not sure there's a consensus) that celiac disease is much more widely present in the general population than the statistics suggest. That would be because not all people have equally strong reactions to gluten and as a consequence a number of symptoms are regarded as "normal" or mistakenly attributed to other causes.

[stuward]

What Mark said. It's important that when reducing gluten in your diet, you shouldn't just start eating "gluten-free" products and grains that don't contain gluten. That's just gluten-free junk food. Replace the gluten containing foods with meat and vegetables, things that are unprocessed and highly nutritious.

[Jebus]

Also 2000-8000 years ago is not that long, from an evolutionary perspective.

[jlmoss]

Gluten is believed to be the cause of so called "leaky guts", i.e. it damages the lining of the intestine so that things that should be confined within it are able to escape into the blood stream. This can be dangerous for a variety of reasons, including that some stuff, when it reaches the blood stream, can cross the blood-brain barrier. Some hypothesized that Alzheimer is a consequence of this.

That makes sense, since bread does stick to the lining of the intestines which is the cause of hardened intestines later in life from what I've heard and seen my grandfather go through... who had Alzheimer's by the way. I would assume the "leaky guts" thing is a long term issue though and I would think that issue is resolved if someone were to do a cleanse or eat roughage to scrape the insides of the intestines on a regular basis. Cleanse once a year, or roughage on a more regular basis. What do ya think on that?

Replace the gluten containing foods with meat and vegetables, things that are unprocessed and highly nutritious.

I'll never really give up my bread though. I mean, I do bake it and fresh out of the oven homemade bread is quite unresistable. Especially some of the artisan breads I play with.

[mark74]

@ jlmoss, the proponents of the "leaky guts theory" recommend that you limit your grain intake (i.e. confining it to cheat meals if you don't feel like giving it up entirely), as I seem to remember gluten is likened to some sort of roughage that physically damages the lining. Of course that doesn't mean you should give up vegetables or giving up carbohydrates altogether, rather replace grains with e.g. starches from rice and potatoes, yams, etc.

[jlmoss]

@ jlmoss, the proponents of the "leaky guts theory" recommend that you limit your grain intake (i.e. confining it to cheat meals if you don't feel like giving it up entirely), as I seem to remember gluten is likened to some sort of roughage that physically damages the lining. Of course that doesn't mean you should give up vegetables or giving up carbohydrates altogether, rather replace grains with e.g. starches from rice and potatoes, yams, etc.

Yes, but the gluten bread damages the intestines by sticking to the nooks and crevices of the intestines and rotting them from the inside out and that process happens over time and is what causes the 'leaky guts' or 'hardened intestine' issues. From a preventative standpoint though, from someone that is never going to give up bread... that process of rotting the intestines over time can be greatly reduced or even eliminated by doing some sort of 'master cleanse' or eating other roughage, such as greens, corn, etc. on a very regular basis, or at least that would be my 'common sense' and competely un-scientific theory and just wanted to get some feedback on that. lol

You know, if my theory, common sense, and/or information is wrong.

[mark74]

AFAICT the key step to reversing the process is greatly reducing, if not eliminate, grain and gluten consumption.

http://thehealthyskeptic.org/9-steps-to ... l-your-gut" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Jungledoc]

That makes sense, since bread does stick to the lining of the intestines which is the cause of hardened intestines later in life from what I've heard and seen my grandfather go through... who had Alzheimer's by the way. I would assume the "leaky guts" thing is a long term issue though and I would think that issue is resolved if someone were to do a cleanse or eat roughage to scrape the insides of the intestines on a regular basis. Cleanse once a year, or roughage on a more regular basis. What do ya think on that?

Yes, but the gluten bread damages the intestines by sticking to the nooks and crevices of the intestines and rotting them from the inside out and that process happens over time and is what causes the 'leaky guts' or 'hardened intestine' issues. From a preventative standpoint though, from someone that is never going to give up bread... that process of rotting the intestines over time can be greatly reduced or even eliminated by doing some sort of 'master cleanse' or eating other roughage, such as greens, corn, etc. on a very regular basis, or at least that would be my 'common sense' and competely un-scientific theory and just wanted to get some feedback on that. lol

You know, if my theory, common sense, and/or information is wrong.

This is complete nonsense. Bread doesn't stick to the intestines. It is dissolved in the stomach. The "leak" involved here is on a chemical basis. It isn't anything you could see, even with a light microscope. Sprue is a condition in which there is an immune reaction to the gluten that triggers inflammation and allows more water to enter the intestine than normal. And where does this "hardened intestine" idea come from? It makes no sense. Roughage doesn't "scrape the insides of the intestines". "Roughage" or fiber, just keeps some material inside the intestines that retains water to keep the stool softer and easier to pass. That applies to the colon, not the ileum. And "cleansing" is not helpful for anything, and potentially harmful.

Sprue is something that either you have our you don't. Maybe it's more common than previously though, or maybe not. But if you don't have it, just eat the gluten and stop agonizing. Do you have symptoms that suggest sprue?

[Jebus]

Like^

[jlmoss]

This is complete nonsense.

That's cool too, I'm no doctor, it's why I asked. I was just going off what I've heard from other people and doctors. My grandfather had parts of his intestines that were hardened and that had to be removed surgically. From what I'm told, it's from undigested food 'sticking' for lack of a better term in the nooks and crannies of the intestine and hardening over time which sometimes creates complete blockages. Of course, that information was given to me by my grandmother & aunt who were the ones that talked to the doctor, so that information may be suspect too... the whole thing about information passed down, etc.

I've done the master cleanse myself a good many years back. It's a 30 day thing on a mixture of water, lemon pulp, and cayenne pepper. I did it after a long stretch of eating right and exercising and I was on a healthy kick, so I figured what the heck. I'm a meat & potatoes kind of guy, so I could only stick to it for a good 15 days or so. If it was nonsense, I would think that I wouldn't be sitting on the toilet at day 13 & 14 with some of the foulest smelling stuff in the toilet bowl. I guess the $50 bet that I wouldn't go on it and stay on it didn't impede my decision to go on it either, which I lost obviously, lol. That doesn't discredit the experiences that I had while on the thing though.

The roughage thing is just another conclusion I've picked up from talking to others. *shrug*

*edit*

Sprue is something that either you have our you don't. Maybe it's more common than previously though, or maybe not. But if you don't have it, just eat the gluten and stop agonizing. Do you have symptoms that suggest sprue?

I'm not really agonizing over it. I know I'm a bread eater, and I always will be. I just like to ask questions and get to the bottom of things that either credit or discredit the information that I've already formulated in my previous life experience.

[stuward]

... I was just going off what I've heard from other people and doctors. My grandfather had parts of his intestines that were hardened and that had to be removed surgically. From what I'm told, it's from undigested food 'sticking' for lack of a better term in the nooks and crannies of the intestine and hardening over time which sometimes creates complete blockages. ...

This sounds like Diverticulitis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverticulitis

Although IBD has been around for a long time, doctors are still learning new things about it. Note that article says:

"The claim that a lack of dietary fiber, particularly non-soluble fiber (also known in older parlance as "roughage") predisposes individuals to diverticular disease is supported within the medical literature".

I wouldn't want to dispute the "medical literature".

[jlmoss]

If the only medical/real reason not to eat gluten is because of gluten sensitivity that some people have then I apologize for taking it in the wrong direction. I was working under the assumption that Stu meant gluten was bad for everyone. And my resulting posts were the product of me trying to think out the reasoning. I did a quick search and found a web page with anonymous information similar to what I've heard before, so at least I know I didn't just dream it up. http://www.glutenfreeandhealthy.com/why_gluten_free.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[stuward]

Gluten sensitivity affects many people in subtle ways but it's still just those with sensitivities. The actual number has been reported as high as 30%, mostly misdiagnosed or ignored. Celiac disease on the other hand, affects a much smaller group, about 1%, which is still substantial when you consider the effects. This is why I included it as being bad. Even if you aren't sensitive, grains in general are a relatively poor source of nutrition compared to meat, fish and vegetables. The best way to know if you have a problem with gluten is to cut it out for a month or so and then reintroduce it.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/al ... ex-eng.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you have celiac disease, you should avoid gluten at all times. If you have an alergy or sensitivity you should go by how you feel. The trouble is, most people don't know what normal feels like. Following are symptoms to watch for:

Symptoms of a Gluten Allergy

Upper repository tract problems (sustains, glue ear)
Fatigue
Chronic fatigue syndrome
Mouth ulcers
Anaemia
Iron-deficiency anaemia
Osteoporosis
Weight loss
Short stature in children
Diarrhoea
Constipation
Abdominal bloating
Crohn’s disease
Diverticulitis
Depression
Attention and behavioral problems (in children and adults)
Autism
Skin problems
Keratosis pilaris
Asthma
Irritability

[robertscott]

i would add as well that although gluten isn't "bad" for everyone, it sure as hell isn't good for anyone so why bother? Eat rice or tatties instead