Some questions for workout program

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ephs
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:09 pm

maybe you can get some inspiration from the gentilcore routine at the bottom of this article:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... r_big_arms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by Dub » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:20 pm

ephs wrote:@dub: OP sounds like a barbell training beginner, why should he do 531 then? your suggested split takes a lot of time, cause you have to workout 4 days a week. you could easily do this in 3 days with the same success. after some months he could change to working out 4 days a week.
What makes 531 a program beginners couldn't do?
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:25 pm

Dub wrote:
ephs wrote:@dub: OP sounds like a barbell training beginner, why should he do 531 then? your suggested split takes a lot of time, cause you have to workout 4 days a week. you could easily do this in 3 days with the same success. after some months he could change to working out 4 days a week.
What makes 531 a program beginners couldn't do?
maybe the 95% x 1+ in week 3, cause it's hard for the absolute beginner to stay at a good form with so much weight.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by Dub » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:35 pm

ephs wrote: maybe the 95% x 1+ in week 3, cause it's hard for the absolute beginner to stay at a good form with so much weight.
Take note, that the program doesn't advice to begin with your true absolute max levels. The guideline is to take 90% from the 1RM, then take the percents from that number. So for a 100Kg squat the last reps will be roughly 85kg at best, which is 85%. Not that bad for 1-5 reps. Just watching for the technical failure like in every other program too.

Programs like Starting Strength and Stronglifts also go quite intense after a couple of weeks cycles, so the effect will eventually be quite the same.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by led7x » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:42 pm

I'm not very familiar with those methods, all I ever did was pick a weight lift, a next time if I'm stronger I would lift more.
@ephs In those workouts, do you do one of exrecises (B1 B2, C1 C2) or just pick one?

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:57 pm

led7x wrote:I'm not very familiar with those methods, all I ever did was pick a weight lift, a next time if I'm stronger I would lift more.
@ephs In those workouts, do you do one of exrecises (B1 B2, C1 C2) or just pick one?
one common concept is progressive resistance, it says you should aim for an increase in reps or weight every week, workout or so. i would do something like this and not only increase the weight by feel.

i think the letters with 1+2 are supersets.
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:59 pm

Dub wrote:
ephs wrote: maybe the 95% x 1+ in week 3, cause it's hard for the absolute beginner to stay at a good form with so much weight.
Take note, that the program doesn't advice to begin with your true absolute max levels. The guideline is to take 90% from the 1RM, then take the percents from that number. So for a 100Kg squat the last reps will be roughly 85kg at best, which is 85%. Not that bad for 1-5 reps. Just watching for the technical failure like in every other program too.

Programs like Starting Strength and Stronglifts also go quite intense after a couple of weeks cycles, so the effect will eventually be quite the same.
for SS it's right, but you never have to do 1RMs, which is a big difference to 531. stronglifts starts with the empty bar, so you have some weeks til you reach a weight which is hard to handle.

edit: i mean you have to handle weight that is nearer at your 1RM at 531. i never tried the program, but the goal is to achieve more than 1 rep, when you are in the 1RM week or not? is this easily doable?
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:09 pm

here are the links for the different programs, so OP knows what we are talking about:

531: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... e_strength" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Starting Strength: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stronglifts 5x5: http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5- ... g-program/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by led7x » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:11 pm

ephs wrote:
led7x wrote:I'm not very familiar with those methods, all I ever did was pick a weight lift, a next time if I'm stronger I would lift more.
@ephs In those workouts, do you do one of exrecises (B1 B2, C1 C2) or just pick one?
one common concept is progressive resistance, it says you should aim for an increase in reps or weight every week, workout or so. i would do something like this and not only increase the weight by feel.

i think the letters with 1+2 are supersets.
So you go into second exercise immediately after you have done first, makes sense.

Thanks for the links, they'll help a lot :)

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:14 pm

led7x wrote:
ephs wrote:
led7x wrote:I'm not very familiar with those methods, all I ever did was pick a weight lift, a next time if I'm stronger I would lift more.
@ephs In those workouts, do you do one of exrecises (B1 B2, C1 C2) or just pick one?
one common concept is progressive resistance, it says you should aim for an increase in reps or weight every week, workout or so. i would do something like this and not only increase the weight by feel.

i think the letters with 1+2 are supersets.
So you go into second exercise immediately after you have done first, makes sense.

Thanks for the links, they'll help a lot :)
yes, you do both exercises and then rest.

no problemo!
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:16 pm

ephs wrote:
robertscott wrote: no one said you had to do every exercise on the list, I was just showing you that your statement that there are few good compound exercises for legs was wrong.
yes, and i wanted to point out that i meant basic exercises, friendo :wink:
what's a basic exercise?

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:26 pm

led7x wrote:So this is what I came up with

Upper A (Horizontal Push/pull):
-Dumbbell press
-Dumbbell flys
-Dumbbell rows variations
-Pushups Variations

Lower A:
- Squats
- Deadlifts
-Abs?

Upper B (Vertical push/pull):
- Pull ups variations
-Overhead shoulder press
-

Lower B:
- Squats
- Deadlift
- Abs?

I need some exercises for vertical push/pull and here to dips belong and what about repetitions?
you could put in dips on Upper Day B. Inverted rows would work well here too. A good rule of thumb is to balance presses and pulls, so maybe add some face pulls to Upper A.

add another hamstring exercise to Lower A and another quad exercise to Lower B.

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:28 pm

robertscott wrote:
ephs wrote:
robertscott wrote: no one said you had to do every exercise on the list, I was just showing you that your statement that there are few good compound exercises for legs was wrong.
yes, and i wanted to point out that i meant basic exercises, friendo :wink:
what's a basic exercise?
the big five + 1, the basis of all human strength:

squat
deadlift
bench press
military press
row
and pull ups
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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by robertscott » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:31 pm

ephs wrote:
robertscott wrote: what's a basic exercise?
the big five + 1, the basis of all human strength:

squat
deadlift
bench press
military press
row
and pull ups
i thought we didn't need vertical pulls because you never do that in real life?

and surely every compound lift can fit into one of those categories?

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Re: Some questions for workout program

Post by ephs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:38 pm

robertscott wrote:
ephs wrote:
robertscott wrote: what's a basic exercise?
the big five + 1, the basis of all human strength:

squat
deadlift
bench press
military press
row
and pull ups
i thought we didn't need vertical pulls because you never do that in real life?

and surely every compound lift can fit into one of those categories?
i'm still unsure about pull ups, that's why the list is called big five + 1 and not big six.

yes, it can. but you can't compare leg press to squats, hyperextension to deadlifts, nautilus press to bench press, seated shoulder press to military press or seated rows to pendlay rows, if we are talking about increasing strength here.
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