18 Year old needs help training

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Knul
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by Knul » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:52 am

KenDowns wrote:Pick one, any one, try it for a week or two and let us know how it goes.
I will! Thanks for all the help! I'll figure something out that works good for me. I don't think I'll be able to do a full hour of workouts at the moment because I haven't done any sports in over 3 years... I'm not that into sports. But I'll definitely let you guys know how it went! Seeya in 1-2 weeks!

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by stuward » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:38 am

Jungledoc wrote:Come on. No one gave you any hate, and no one said you are lazy. And no one was being elitist. I'm sorry if that's the way it came across, but people were just being a little tough with you. It sure sounded like you jumped in here without doing much research on your own, and expected us to just tell you what to do. That's pretty guaranteed to get a negative reaction from any forum you might jump into.

So, yeah, Ken is a great guy. But the rest of us ain't creeps--we'd just like to see you do a bit more for yourself. So start doing a little study for yourself, then ask us questions about things that aren't clear to you--we'll be glad to help.

And most people feel that an hour workout 3 times a week is a good place to start.
Thanks Andy.
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by hoosegow » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:14 am

We should help people like this kid, not tell him to go away until he knows as much as we think we know. If you don't want to help, don't. You don't have to talk down to anyone.
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by stuward » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:44 am

hoosegow wrote:We should help people like this kid, not tell him to go away until he knows as much as we think we know. If you don't want to help, don't. You don't have to talk down to anyone.
Just for the record, I wasn't telling him to go away. I was just bringing up his lack of commitment and unrealistic expectations, basically softening him up for him to re-evaluate his goals or to provide the opportunity for somone like Ken to spoon feed him with things he should be able to figure out with a minimum of effort on his own part. Like the old saying goes, you can feed someone, or teach him to fish. I used my judgement to provide him the imputis to re-evaluate his question.
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by KenDowns » Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:54 am

I've always enjoyed the conversational tone here. Give and take, learn and teach as we can.

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by robertscott » Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:45 pm

not sure why you're being so sensitive here hoose, I didn't see anything out of order posted and I still don't.

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by hoosegow » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:52 pm

Really? Go back and re-read the posts from the standpoint of a kid looking for help.
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:27 pm

I see Hoose' point.
Clearly, I also understand the intent of our veterans.

On a poker forum I used to give hand advice on every hand all day long. (it was a slow time in my life), for 2 years. I posted over 20k times ,mostly helping out newer players. I was relatively more advanced there than I am at lifting - trust me. Anyway, eventually, I was just a tool frustrated because someone didn't know that when playing $2 LHE, you should look to check raise with a flush draw in large pots in early position. I stopped posting there. My time had come and gone

Some of you could just take a break. Let the enthusiastic, more patient, still wet behind the ears give advice. And if its lousy advice, you can chime in. In todays world kids and adults don't want to wait or look for answers. We can try to teach them how to fish, but that's pretty lofty goals, for one forum.
And kids these days have thin skins. We're softer these days.

So do we have to change to coddle and encourage newbs by holding their hands for awhile or repeating ad nauseam the same basic advice? No. We can choose to step back and let those who are willing take over. And if our forum dies more and more from lack of involvement that is fine imo. There are enough posts out there from Doc telling us the 6 basic movements. Good thought provoking questions will always get responses

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:32 pm

to continuer but slighty different angle

I sense some of you are personally attached to this forum. You are flustered that newbs disrespect all the effort we have made to build a library of posts. Couple that with the natural flaw of presuming the world's knowledge comes along with your own, and all these questions get tiresome and threaten your sense of importance. "Why, how dare you not already consider all that I have provided for you!!"

When the fun/ego of showing what you know needs to be replaced with the passion to teach for the sake of helping others, many of us realize that teaching is not our thing. I did.

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by robertscott » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:23 am

meh, I still think you guys have made a mountain out of a molehill

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by Oscar_Actuary » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:08 am

the mole hills have been accumulating

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by Ironman » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:16 am

Yea some of that was a little harsh. Granted the "15 minutes" comment was quite silly, however I think it was made with unrealistic preconceptions. Rather than be crabby, we should instead set his expectations correctly.

Lets also keep in mind that 20 minutes is possible if one is willing to work out more frequently.

1 set per exercise, 2 exercises for major muscle groups, 1 for isolation
day 1 legs (3 total work sets)
day 2 chest, lateral delts, tris (4 total work sets)
day 3 back bis (3 total work sets) (4 if you do shrugs for upper traps)
day 4 legs
day 5 chest, lateral delts, tris
day 6 back bis
day 7 rest

Throw in some ab/core work when you can, and some intervals when possible as well.

Honestly if you just pick up a heavy object from the floor until it becomes difficult to do, then squat while holding something heavy, then do some pushups with your feet elevated a little, and then do some chin ups, that would probably be good enough for the time being.


On a side note, another thing everyone should keep in mind is that something can fall short of optimal by quite a bit, while simultaneously being far from useless. So lets not view the world, and by extension advise people, through the lens of a self-imposed false dichotomy. Optimal and useless are usually separated by a truly massive spectrum of grey. Neither should we forget what it was like to be young, how reality is perceived at that time with a lack of knowledge/experience, and how best to impart knowledge to someone in that stage of life, who views things a little differently.

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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by KPj » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:26 am

I trained for almost 2 years with 15-30 min workouts, because it was literally all I could fit in.

I picked 3 movements, one big one, 2 assistance. The big movement, I worked up to a heavy weight. The assistance, I alternated sets so, for example, it may of been lunges and rollouts. I would do a set of lunges then a set of roll outs. I aimed for 5 sets of 10 but would just fit in whatever I could. Basically "run down the clock".

When I only had 15-ish mins I picked just one movement (squat-bench-dead), worked up to a heavy 1-5 reps, then dropped it down and repped out.

I actually had a 15 minute routine where I would use only 15 Kilo plates. So, you could only go up or down in 15KG plates, meaning 30 KG jumps. Would work up until it was heavy then knock a plate each side off and rep out. Some of these sessions were brutal..

You can definitely make short sessions work, you just need to make up for lack of time with increase in intensity, whether it's high reps or heavy weights. Higher reps are easier to work with because heavy weights require decent rest times, so you'll get a lot more done with high rep stuff and it suits beginners better anyway. You could make up circuits with what you have and smash them, trying to improve on total reps/work done each week. It's at least a start.

KPj
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by stuward » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:27 am

Part of the problem that I see and that is contributing to the unrealistic expectations is people like John romaniello pushing 15 minute workouts.
http://www.romanfitnesssystems.com/blog ... m-workout/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice in 15 minutes, he's covering:
WORKOUT

Superset 1 – Big, Heavy Compound Movements. These exercises involve multiple joints and muscles, so you’ll be strongest here. The heavy weight force you to recruit fast twitch muscle fibers; these recover quickly, so rest is kept brief.

Perform 5 sets of 5 reps using heavy weight, resting 30-45 seconds between exercises. After your last superset, rest 30 seconds and move to superset B.

A1) Neutral Grip Chin-Up
Sets: 5
Reps: 5

A2) Neutral Grip Floor Press
Sets: 5
Reps: 5

Superset 2 – “Moderate” Compound Movements. These exercises are more isolation based, but still recruit other muscles. In this case, in addition to hitting your bis and tris, both of these will hit your shoulders and traps, helping you beef those up as well.

Perform 4 sets of 8 reps for each exercise, alternating with only 10 seconds of rest in between. After your last superset, proceed immediately to superset C.

B1) Barbell Drag Curl
Sets: 4
Reps: 8

B2) Dips
Sets: 4
Reps: 8

Superset 3 – High-rep isolation movements. This last superset is going to be as close to isolation as you can get while still providing maximum muscle building variety. Both movements work the target muscles intensely; however, they also put a lot of mechanical stress on the muscles of the forearms. This superset will help complete the look of you arms by developing the lower arm and strengthening the grip.

Perform 2 sets of 15 reps for each exercise, alternating with 20-30 seconds of rest in between. After your last superset, proceed to the mirror and flex for 2-3 minutes.

C1) Zottman Curls (dumbbell)
Sets: 2
Reps: 12-15

C2) Reverse Grip Overhead Triceps Extensions (barbell or cable)
Sets: 2
Reps: 12-15
If anyone can complete this workout in 15 minutes, I want to meet him.

Kpj, I still do 30 minute workouts. I'm not arguing against them. I'm arguing about unrealistic expectations.
Stu Ward
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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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Re: 18 Year old needs help training

Post by stuward » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:46 am

My workout today. I went to my rock pile and picked up a large rock. Pressed it overhead, carried to to my wheel barrow. Repeated twice more. Then I wheeled it all to the bottom of my driveway, then back up. It was a full body workout including cardio and took 5 minutes and no equipment and I didn't have to drive anywhere.
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Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~Hippocrates
Strength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley
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